It’s hard to understand the economic logic of President Trump’s tariffs. In our last episode, we tried, but with limited success. And that might be because the logic here isn’t entirely economic at all. So we wanted to spend an episode looking at Trump’s economic policies through a wider lens. Gillian Tett is a columnist at The Financial Times and a member of its editorial board. She’s also a trained anthropologist with a Ph.D. And she brings both perspectives into this conversation — exploring Trump’s policies as economics, as well as power politics, patronage and cultural messaging — which I think makes the whole thing make a bit more sense. Watch more on @EzraKleinShow

0:00 Intro 2:06 The hegemonic power mindset 4:14 Mar-a-Lago Accord 21:09 Cultural power 25:11 Tariff strategy 27:44 Market pain 33:18 Global reaction 45:58 Bond markets 54:20 Detox period / John Maynard Keynes 58:00 Book recs

Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com. You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-….