Matt Heimbach and Jared Taylor Debate Tim Wise and Michael Dyson

Here’s an interesting thought experiment. Suppose an ATS associated had been the fifth participant in this debate. What should an ATSer say in response to the two sides being presented? One friend suggests something like the following:

“Most people viewing this probably see two radically opposing positions that are irreconcilable at best. What I see, is an emerging consensus where both sides agree that it is best to live in a cohesive community surrounded by people with similar values and aspirations. The sooner these gentleman see this as well, the sooner we can cease debating and start working toward that common goal.”

Ironically, I would agree with most of what all four participants in the discussion actually said. I know Jared and Matt personally, and being a sociologist, a profoundly left-wing profession for the most part, I’m also very familiar with the work of Wise and Dyson.

Liberals and leftists like the latter are right about the historic oppression of minorities in the US, their recognition that it’s generally advantageous to belong to a larger group than a smaller group, the fact that many minorities continue to face socioeconomic disadvantages due to their concentration in the lower and lower middle socioeconomic levels, and the fact that they feel the brunt of the force of the police state to a disproportional degree. I dislike Tim Wise’s smug PC moralism and Dyson’s sucking up to Obama, but they’re right about the impact of the war on drugs, for example, and certain class conflict issues. But all Jared and Matt were saying is that it’s not necessarily in the best interests of future generations of whites to become a minority in their historic homelands where they will be surrounded by other ethnic groups with deep-seated historical grudges against white that go back for centuries. People like Wise and Dyson who specialize in the study of the oppression of minorities ought to be able to at least conceive of that. Wise is arguing for a “post-racial” society that operates as multiracial democracy, but most multiethnic societies around the world are inherently unstable and frequently plagued with ethnic conflict. The ones that are democracies tend to be divided into ethnic voting blocks with spoils systems and cronyism. And there are plenty of separatist movements even in places where most people are roughly the same color. There are ethnic groups in the US that once engaged in conflict with the dominant WASP majority where the conflict has now largely subsided, but at the cost of assimilation to the point of losing their identity to a great degree, like Irish-Americans, German-Americans, Italian-Americans, Catholic-Americans, Polish-Americans, etc.even Jewish-Americans to some degree. Nowadays, these aren’t particularly distinguishable from WASPs for the most part. Also, the US is a well on its way to becoming a failed state with a $19 trillion debt, and a hated world empire that loses one war after another. The US empire sucks just as bad during the era of Obama as it did during the era of unquestioned WASP hegemony.

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