Today’s guest is Michael Shellenberger. Michael is a journalist, author, environmental activist and was dubbed ‘Hero of the Environment’ by Time Magazine. He’s the Founder and President of Environmental Progress, a nonprofit dedicated to eradicating poverty and saving the natural environment. He’s co-written and written a number of books, including An Ecomodernist Manifesto, and Apocalypse Never: Why Environmental Alarmism Hurts Us All, which is the topic of today’s conversation. We talked about the trade off between reducing global carbon emissions and allowing third world countries to industrialize, how civilization would adjust to rising sea levels, whether climate change would lead to military conflict over scarce resources, the claim that we have to cut carbon emissions in half in the next decade, the importance of nuclear energy, cryptocurrency and its environmental consequences, are humans causing a mass extinction, is banning plastic bags a good policy, and much more.