Sensible Centrist Podcast – Episode 9: LastBlueDog

SCP#9

Our first guest on the other side of the aisle, though a relatively ‘sane’ Democrat. LastBlueDog, who’s first name is Elliot, is a Blue Dog Democrat who is tired of Wokeism in the Democratic Party, although remains a Democrat in fundamental ways.

I have talked about how the Democrats need to reject Wokeism in order for it to be truly beaten, hence, why I had Elliot on.

This isn’t to say I SUPPORT the Democrats, but if the Democrats HAVE to win (as they inevitably will at some point), I’d much prefer them to be made up of people like Elliot as opposed to people like AOC.

It was good of him to come on to a predominantly oppositional audience.

We discuss why people rejected the Democrats in 2024, my concern with judicial activism, why the Democrats are so Woke, and how polarisation can be reduced.

• Introduction, where I mistakenly call Elliot ‘Ethan’. Elliot discusses what a ‘Blue Dog Democrat’ is – 00:00 – 2:54
• Did Obama lie about his moderation? Elliot defines his ‘conservatism’ in a Burkean way of incrementalism – 2:55 – 4:02
• Why I, as a British person, take such an interest in American politics – 4:03 – 4:41
• To break the ice, I tell Elliot where I disagree with the Republican Party. I accept that Biden’s win in 2020 was mostly fair in the counting of the votes, though not the repression of the Hunter Biden Laptop story – 4:42 – 5:55
• Why I supported Biden in 2020, yet was repulsed by his extremism, particularly on transgender issues, which led me to become increasingly aligned with the GOP. Why I dislike the contrarian, ‘the Democrats are for it, so we’re against it’ attitude – 5:56 – 7:56
• Elliot suggests me not being American gives me some healthy distance from the negative partisanship. He explains how the GOP base takes whatever Donald Trump says as gospel, though I invoke vaccines as an article to the contrary, where the base was more of a kook than he was – 7:57 – 9:47
• Why I am pro-vaccine but anti-lockdown, and how the ‘pandemic of racism’ statement in regard to the George Floyd protests being able to break Covid lockdowns, as well as transgenderism, is why so many Republicans distrust medical professionals, which has had the unfortunate side effect of measles outbreaks – 9:48 – 11:17
• Elliot talks about how the Democrats have placed too much faith in technocracy, and cites school closures, which lasted as long as they did because of teachers unions, as a major reason why the American electorate rejected the Democrats in 2024. He calls transgenderism something which doesn’t effect many parents, which I push back on – 11:18 – 15:19
• I mention the anti-incumbent mood that Covid generated, and how a large reason why people rejected the Tories last year here in Britain was because of Partygate – 15:20 – 15:50
• Why I have fundamental issues with Democrats, even those that genuinely are ‘moderate’ – judicial activism of their judicial appointees, most notably shown by the gay marriage rulings. I hypothesise that the radicalisation of the Republican Party is due to lingering resentment over the overturning of the 32 state referendums, despite that issue not being its expression – 15:51 – 19:48
• Elliot admits that the cultural left in America has used judicial activism as a means to impose cultural change, and whilst pro-choice, he thinks Roe was built on shaky ground. However, he thinks that the ‘equal protection clause’ of the 14th Amendment gives grounds for the judicial imposition of gay marriage, of which I strongly disagree. We both agree that the acceptance of gay marriage may have led to the radicalisation of trans activism – 19:49 – 22:07
• Elliot argues that it was the collapse of the post-WWII economic order which radicalised the country. I point out that this was the line that the Biden administration took, justifying bold interventionist economic policies, yet voters were still put off by his cultural extremism, though I also agree with Elliot that lingering anger about school closures and the high inflation from 2021 to 2023 was what ultimately decided the election in 2024 – 22:08 – 24:47
• I expand on my hypothesis that gay marriage was the indirect cause of the radicalisation of the GOP, and how if Trump hadn’t have run, Ted Cruz probably would have won, which would have been a stark departure from Mitt Romney and John McCain. Trump won against Cruz because he was seen as more combative, even though on the issues he was less conservative. I criticise Elliot on invoking the ‘equal protection clause’ for gay marriage, though I admit that the right have also been guilty of judicial activism with the Lochner Era, and repeat my hostility to SCOTUS. Why I think Republican-appointed SCOTUS justices are the lesser evil – 24:48 – 27:55
• Elliot pushes back on my claim that the current court is restrained. I admit that the Federalist Society has not been truthful to Originalism in all circumstances, but that when the jurisprudence philosophy begun under rejected Supreme Court nominee Robert Bork it was much more so, and the Federalist Society has been ‘distorted’ by libertarian and Neocon notions. Elliot agrees, though he prefers those tendencies when compared to my more socially conservative positions. Why I believe the Trump-appointed justices are not Originalists, but rather a return to the moderate, restrained Vinson Court – 27:56 – 32:08
• For a democracy to be functional, there needs to be ‘losers consent’, which is based on the trust that the winning party will not pose a fundamental threat to the losing party’s base’s way of life. Why, if Elliot was where most Democratic politicians were, I’d be less radical in my beliefs. Elliot agrees that the politicians are captured by an activist class – 32:09 – 35:36
• We discuss electability between the two parties. We both agree that Governors of Purple States have the best electability, for either party – 35:37 – 36:58
• I ask Elliot to give me an example of a moderate Democratic governor. Elliot says Jared Polis of Colorado. I say I could never vote if I was American for him because his views on transgenderism are as extreme as the most Woke Democrats, and I consider that the litmus test issue, but I admit that on other issues he is fairly moderate – 36:59 – 37:53
• Is LGB separate from T? Elliot says yes, whereas I say you can’t ignore that the push for T came overwhelmingly from NGOs that had previously pushed for LGB. I do admit however, that Elliot’s position is where the majority of people in both Britain and American are as of right now – 37:54 – 38:41
• We go on a slight tangent about feminist literature. Elliot blames transgenderism on Third Wave feminist theory. We debate about Second Wave feminists like Simone de Beauvoir, though I concede some aspects of Second Wave Feminism were good – 38:42 – 42:18
• What can depolarise America? I talk about the Forward Party, why I was initially a big supporter of ranked-choice-voting (RCV) but soured on the idea due to the length of time it took to count the ballots, and how the trust from the American public isn’t there, hence why the initiatives were so overwhelmingly rejected. I continue to support non-partisan blanket primaries and runoffs as a depolarisation measure which maintains many of the same advantages as RCV but is simpler, though I also want reforms to mail-in voting. Do primary voters represent their districts? Elliot says there should be a constitutional amendment banning gerrymandering at all levels and having it be done by independent commissions, on which I agree – 42:19 – 49:06
• Elliot shares many Republican critiques of the administrative state, but doesn’t believe centralising power in the executive is the answer. Instead, he wants Congress to resume its proper role, and, unusually for a Democrat, agrees with my emphasis on the 10th Amendment. I ask him whether his support for rulings like Obergefell is compatible with the 10th Amendment, invoking Patrick Deneen about liberalism’s inherently centralising tendencies, though he dismisses him as an ‘Catholic Integralist’ – 49:07 – 51:43
• When is centralisation justified? We both agree that federal governments need to intervene on occasion, but disagree where the line should be drawn. Elliot invokes civil rights, and I argue why I think the ‘civil rights mythology’ underpins a lot of Wokeness, and how I think Barry Goldwater had the most principled position – 51:44 – 55:32
• Why Elliot is in favour of less regulation and a more active Congress. Whilst Elliot loathes Donald Trump, he says he sometimes has the right ideas, but implements them very poorly – 55:33 – 58:53
• I mention how conservative Republican Person Online has also denounced DOGE’s treatment of federal workers. We agree there’s a big difference between Twitter/X and the federal government, how Elon Musk being successful in regards to the former doesn’t mean he’ll be successful with the latter – 58:54 – 1:03:22
• I ask Elliot what he thinks of the widely held opinion amongst the GOP that a stronger executive can lead to more effective and reduced spending? – 1:03:23 – 1:05:30
• As a ‘deficit hawk’, Elliot is a true ‘Clintonian Democrat’. I mention the divide between people like me and people like Walt Bismarck on free trade – 1:05:31 – 1:06:20
• Why I want the Democrats to get clobbered again and again, until they listen to people like Elliot, John Halpin and Ruy Teixeira – 1:06:21 – 1:07:41
• Closing, where I briefly make fun of ‘Chudyard’ ( UBERSOY ) – 1:07:42 – 1:09:19