Ok,… this is annoying the crap out of me for some reason… Is Kyiv pronounced ‘Keev’ or ‘Key-ev’? This invasion is the first time I’ve ever heard it pronounced ‘Keev’.

From Texas Governor Abbott’s cruel attack on trans kids and their families to Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, it’s been a challenging, painful few days. In the first few minutes of the show, we get into the topic of the conflict in Ukraine — why sanctions hurting Russian civilians won’t work and shouldn’t be applied, the historic parallels that might inform the way we think about this war — to get a handle on the events that are unfolding. Then, we’re joined by this week’s guest, Catherine Liu, who shares her insight on the history of American militarism and imperialism as well as her argument on the tension between the working class and the PMC.

If you’re not familiar with her book Virtue Hoarders (we recommend it), Catherine has studied and written extensively on the shifting formations of class in American society, honing in on the rise and development of the professional-managerial class (you know it as the PMC). She argues that this group’s appeals to identity politics and dismissal of class politics have alienated it from solidarity with the working class. The consultants and managers of the PMC aren’t necessarily the top bosses, but they can wield their power in ways that further cement class inequalities and exploit their fellow workers.

With the conflict in Ukraine on our minds, we talk to Catherine about how class position affects daily life, particularly on the issue of war and peace. How does your class identity shape your understanding of and interactions with American militarism? Catherine makes the great point that the massive wealth commanded by the American military’s adventurism is a cost paid by American civilians, and that today’s military conflicts are used to avoid the implementation of a robust healthcare system.

But she also connects the development of this militarism through the twentieth century to the rise of the PMC. Think tanks have played an increasingly important role in beating the drums of war, and Catherine points to the idea of “expertise” in foreign policy that they promote, adding a veneer of intellectualism, experience, and professionalism to this country’s practice of destroying the lives of people overseas in senseless, bloody wars.